Rising Star Meets Industry Sage in Customer Service Odyssey

Ever wondered how a fresh face navigates the labyrinth of the contact centre industry? 

Sophia's story will captivate you as she reveals how her passion, ignited by her father's career, led her to the buzzing world of customer service and outsourcing. Joining her is the sagacious Sadiq Mohammed, who brings decades of experience and a wealth of knowledge about the sector's evolution and the transformative impact of technology. 

Together, they tackle the tough questions about outsourcing, debunking myths and highlighting the essential role of external teams in enhancing internal operations.

Strap in as we navigate the roadmap to professional growth within the contact centres and BPO spaces. The chapter throws a spotlight on the critical need for nurturing young talent, fostering connections across generational lines, and providing mentorship through platforms where experiences and knowledge are shared freely. 

For those under 25 eyeing a career in this vibrant industry, our conversation is a treasure trove of guidance on starting strong, leveraging resources effectively, and climbing the ladder with confidence and skill. As we wrap, Sadiq imparts a nugget of wisdom about staying agile and open-minded, qualities that remain non-negotiable amid the industry's rapid pace of change.

We round off our discussion with reflections on personal and professional aspirations, casting our gaze towards a future interlaced with cutting-edge tech and deepened partnerships.  Our guests share their excitement about the integration of emerging technologies and the potential to revolutionize client management practices. 

With a unique family podcast twist, Sophia and Sadiq offer us a dual perspective on the trajectory of the contact centre industry, celebrating the synergy between established expertise and the spark of innovation. 

Don't miss this episode for an unparalleled insight into the heart and hustle behind the scenes of customer service and outsourcing.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:34

Welcome to CX Diaries. Cx Diaries from the Customer Experience Foundation is our podcast where we talk to the people at the sharp end of CX and Contact Centres, the movers and the shakers, the innovators and disruptors and the people delivering in the real world who share their stories of their journey through our industry with us. This week, I'm delighted to be joined by Sophia and Sadeeq Muhammad, who many of you will know, and Sophia is new to the industry and one of the industry's up and coming rising stars. Sophia and Sadeeq, welcome Pleasure to have you with us today.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Thank you very much for having us Great so.

Speaker 1: 1:10

Sophia, apart from working with your dad, share us a bit about your background and what led you into the world of Contact Centres and outsourcing.

Speaker 2: 1:21

So it kind of started when I was in school.

Speaker 2: 1:23

In college and then university I had quite a heavy kind of focus on business and economics and I kind of always knew that was something the kind of world that I wanted to go into. Obviously, with my dad being in the outsourcing world, we're a very close family so I was always surrounded by, I guess, the lingo and the conversations and kind of overhearing and talking about things, and it was always something that kind of fascinated me, especially when I was younger. People used to ask me what does your dad do? And I couldn't quite explain it. So I think the kind of, you know, just wondering about what he did led me into it. But I did an economics degree. I then went into doing marketing for a little while and then ultimately kind of fell into this role with my dad when I went out as a marketing consultant and had a little bit more free time to kind of help him. Initially it was meant to be for a few days a week, but yeah, that's how I got into it and now it is obviously full time.

Speaker 1: 2:28

And how have you found it? What have you learned so far? What's opened your eyes?

Speaker 2: 2:33

I think, just coming kind of grips with the fundamentals of the industry and what it is that outsourcing actually is and how impactful it can be for clients and the journeys that they go through. You know everything from the lingo and the terminology, use, kind of different strategies that we use with different clients, learning about their industries that they're in. I think overall it's been a really kind of interesting process and I think for a long time to come, still every day will continue to be a school day. I definitely kind of learned something new every day, whether that be for my dad or the partners or clients that we work with.

Speaker 1: 3:12

And what would some of the some of the common misconceptions or stereotypes about contact centres and outsourcing that you've encountered, and how do you address those?

Speaker 2: 3:24

I think a lot of people you know kind of think you outsource it, that's it and you forget about it. But the reality is, in order for an operation to be successful and for it to grow and it to be beneficial for the client and both the partner, they are essentially the outsource team on operations or an extension of your own team. And when clients have adopted that mentality, the growth and, you know, results and improvements that we've seen have been quite monumental. But it's definitely kind of squashing that misconception that they're just you know, they're on the other side of the world. Forget about them. They are, you know, in addition to the team.

Speaker 1: 4:07

And Satik. What advice have you given Sophia about the industry?

Speaker 3: 4:12

Well, I've been in it for as long as you and I both have. The industry's evolved, and the advice that I gave her was that when I first started in the industry, it was a very different industry to what it is today so much more fast-paced, so much more technology involved, so many more geographies that are involved, so I've you know and so many more industries that are open to outsourcing and so many services that can be outsourced. So you know what the advice I've given her is look, the industry is evolving. It's continued to evolve. Technology is going to play a massive part in whatever we do and whoever we speak to and whatever partner we speak to, and I've asked her to keep a very open mind to the developments in those particular areas in the industry as it evolves.

Speaker 1: 5:08

Yeah, and that's something we'll touch on in a bit. Sophia, I'll come to you with this one and then get Satik's take on it. We see this quite a bit. There is a certain amount of skepticism from some in our industry about younger people and those that are new to it. What do you say to that? Have you dealt with that? Have you come across that?

Speaker 2: 5:29

Yeah, I think you know you do come across it.

Speaker 2: 5:33

It can't be helped, and there are a lot of people who have been in the industry for you know, like you guys, a lot longer than I have, but and someone like me who is new to the industry people like you are invaluable.

Speaker 2: 5:45

You can learn so much from them and I think that's what the main point of me working with my dad is. I learned so much from him and from the benefit of his experience, but at the same time, you know, he also then benefits from a different perspective, a fresh set of eyes and a different view, and whether that be in terms of marketing or digital or just more innovative solutions, because the reality is a lot of the agents who are working within our partners are of the same age as me. They're all young people and I think some of the kind of solutions that we've come across and tech solutions and platforms are all aimed at, obviously, the agents and therefore the younger generation. So I think it's just been able to translate that sometimes to my dad and then also being able to say, well, what about this and what about this? And I think it's just given a different perspective and we benefit both from each other, I think, and both of our perspectives and experiences.

Speaker 1: 6:51

Yeah, I think that's absolutely fantastic to fear Sadiq. What would you say to that? There are people that I think that unless you've been in this industry for 25 years, that you haven't got an opinion. What's your take on that? I totally disagree with that.

Speaker 3: 7:06

I think young people we think about first of all the clients that we work with. All of their consumers are generally young consumers, depending on the product of the selling, but we will work a lot in the retail space and fast fashion and all that sort of stuff. We work a lot in telecoms and media. A lot of the consumer base is quite young. The way that that consumer base actually wants to communicate now with our clients is very different to the way we used to communicate 20 years ago. So having somebody who understands what a client's customer looks like is really really valuable, and having somebody like Sophia sat in a room.

Speaker 3: 7:45

We were sat in a meeting with a fast fashion retailer the other day that we're moving over to another part of the world and it was very obvious that I was the oldest guy in that room, so my experience was very valuable and very knowledgeable. But it was amazing that some of the language and the tone of voice that these guys were using and the digital platforms that they now engage with is very, very different to what we would be used to. So these guys the first thing that they did was not linking to me through LinkedIn. They went to my Instagram account and linked into me on my Instagram account. So having somebody like Sophia in my business has really helped.

Speaker 3: 8:26

And if you look at our website now and if you look at our the way we communicate on LinkedIn and we're now on Instagram and we're on all of these other platforms, you know the tone of voice that we're now using is a very different tone of voice in communicating with our clients because, believe it or not, keith, our clients are getting younger as well, you know. You know our clients are getting younger. The BPO partners that we work with, apart from the execs, tend, you know, the heads of, etc. The heads of operations, the operational managers, the CTOs all tend to be very young and they speak very, sometimes very, differently. So I think it's brilliant that we can bring young people through this industry, because they are the future BPO partners, they are the future heads of directors and executives and clients and they are the future matchmakers that you know what we are.

Speaker 1: 9:23

Yeah, sophia, you're part of a TikTok generation, so taking that further. So what sort of trends or innovation in the industry are you finding particularly exciting or noteworthy for the future?

Speaker 2: 9:38

I think for me the integration of AI into the call centres and contact centres around the world is really important because obviously we all attended the call and contact centre expo in London at the back end of last year and that was a big topic there and interestingly enough there was a presentation surrounding AI, TikTok and how that can be integrated into the contact centres. But I think the kind of value of AI is not to replace the human agent but more so to free up their time with the more automated tasks. But I think how that progresses over the coming years will definitely be a very interesting thing to witness.

Speaker 1: 10:30

And what skills or behaviours do you think are essential for success in this industry in 2024 and beyond? What do we need now that we didn't have 10 years ago?

Speaker 2: 10:40

I think the ability to just adapt quickly and to do it in line with whether it be a client and their needs, but that adaptability, the flexibility and the agility that is needed so that the client can keep up with their consumers and keep up with their peaks and things. And again the conversation we were having with a client they can plan for as many peaks as possible, but all it takes in my generation is for an influencer to post something that goes viral and all of a sudden there's an unexpected peak. So it's kind of having a partner that is able to adapt with that.

Speaker 1: 11:23

Very interesting and Sadeed. Looking at Sophia, what skills and behaviours do you think someone coming through the industry needs to have and develop?

Speaker 3: 11:39

I don't think you need a degree anymore to be coming into this industry.

Speaker 3: 11:43

I think those days are gone, because I think what I find now, if you have the ability to learn, the ability to adapt, you're in tune with the digital and social media that's happening around you and you have a willingness to learn in this industry, then I think those are the sort of skills that you need.

Speaker 3: 12:07

We now operate in a business that's 24x7 all over the world, so you need to be able to sort of adapt to that. And we travel myself and Sophia travel a hell of a lot all around the world visiting our partners so you need to be able to do that. But a willingness to learn, I think, a willingness to sort of understand what good customer experience looks like and use some of the experiences that you've had or the experiences that you would like when you're talking to your clients, talking to call centres, when you're working in a call centre I think that those are the sort of skills that you need nowadays, versus 20 years ago, keith, when we were coming up and everybody said you need this and what should the industry be doing more of, because we've got people like Sophia and others coming through that are mid to late 20s.

Speaker 1: 13:00

What training, ongoing support does the industry need to provide to better develop and support these younger people coming through, and how do we do it?

Speaker 2: 13:10

I think if I can just interrupt that I think there is a lot of whether you want to call them groups and foundations that seem to be a lot of the more established people in the industry. I think it would be great to have a platform whether that be quarterly meetups or something like that where it is the younger element of this industry getting together and sharing what we've learned, sharing our peaks and our troughs and how we've got over issues or how we've done something really really well. I think something like that would be incredibly valuable.

Speaker 3: 13:53

I think there are a number of foundations or platforms out there and we tend to focus on sectors or we tend to focus on groups. I think, like you say, focusing it onto the young people, whether it's team leaders and I know there are some people who do that very, very well in our industry and you know who I'm talking about but focusing it on other younger people who want to maybe come up in BPLs as client partners or want to become good ops managers or CTOs within our clients. Those people, I think just having the ability to sit around a table and talk, as Sophia said, discuss stuff, would be, I think, extremely valuable, because I just don't think they get it and they're sat with the older generation.

Speaker 1: 14:41

Yeah, Taking that a bit further. I wanted to turn this on its head a little bit. What advice you would give to somebody?

Speaker 2: 14:48

of our age.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Technology and automation has changed the landscape of contact-centre, bpo, outsourcing. The days of answering 60 and earning models, etc. Are long gone. They've gone 15, 20 years ago. How do those of us in the 40s and 50s stay as updated on these developments as the younger people, where it comes more naturally to them?

Speaker 2: 15:12

I mean, I think it's the same principle that you would apply to a younger person coming into this industry. It's the willingness to learn and being open to receiving these new ideas, rather than and they may come from someone with less experience than yourself, but they've got a different kind of perspective and come from a different generation. So it's that willingness to learn, I think is key.

Speaker 1: 15:35

Yeah, so do you agree with that?

Speaker 3: 15:37

Yes, I do. Yeah, absolutely. The landscape is changing, keith, and it's evolving every day, and I'm hearing about new ways of doing things, new technologies that are coming in. Everybody is an expert all of a sudden on AI and it's just making sure one that you can see through all of that. But just taking on some of those platforms and some of those new ways of working, because the reality is your clients, your clients, customers, the BPO's are all getting younger and they all have different ways of working than you do, so you have to be agile in the way you approach stuff.

Speaker 1: 16:18

Yeah, and what advice do you have for others who are considering a career in contact centres or CX or outsourcing, especially those under 25 and new to the industry? How should they go?

Speaker 2: 16:32

about it. I mean, it would definitely be something I would say go ahead and do Again. Willingness to learn, and you've got to have a good teacher. I think something that's been really kind of valuable in this kind of partnership, obviously, working for my dad is he's been an excellent teacher but also had that willingness to evolve and change, Whether that be digitally or with our social medias. We've worked really well together to ultimately change for the better.

Speaker 1: 17:08

So D, unless someone's parent is an industry figure like you. What are some potential career growth opportunities for someone starting in contact centres and outsourcing? How can they work towards advancing their career within the industry? How do they get started?

Speaker 3: 17:25

I think we all started pretty much at the bottom in that sense. I think nowadays there are certifications out there that you can get. There's training that you can get as well. There's webinar that you can attend, and I think if you start with that in mind and start listening to some of the webinars that are out there, start thinking about some of the digital training courses that are out there. That's one way of you starting to understand what this industry is about.

Speaker 3: 17:54

Attending conferences there's lots of free conferences out there where you don't have to spend money, you don't have to persuade your bosses to pay for you. So there's lots of free conferences all over the country where you can go and you can listen to really industry experts about what's happening in this industry and how it's evolving. So it's taking an active interest in this industry, attending seminars, attending conferences, attending webinars, listening to podcasts and all that sort of stuff, because that will give you the hunger to be in this industry. And then it's seeing opportunities. Whether you work for a BPO and you're a team leader or an ops manager, push yourself into doing something else, like a client manager or a sales manager or something like that, or whether you just work for an in-house contact centre. Push yourself into roles that may be outside of your comfort zone. That's the only way that you're going to develop. Is if you just push yourself into areas where you're not comfortable.

Speaker 1: 18:54

Yeah, Sophia, do you want to come in there?

Speaker 2: 18:57

Yeah. So I think again pushing yourself out of those comfort zones. If there are people you are aware of on LinkedIn who are the younger generation working in this industry, I think reaching out to them just to have a conversation, have a call with them and kind of get their experience and their feedback on it and their advice, I think is really valuable as well, and I know a lot of you know. If somebody reached out to me on LinkedIn, I would definitely make the time to speak to them and kind of give them any advice they needed.

Speaker 1: 19:27

Yeah, Sadee.

Speaker 3: 19:28

The only thing I would say is and Keith, you all know this, people who are, you know, like I've been in this industry for a long time we get inundated with sales emails. So actually I would be really pleased to get an email from somebody asking for advice rather than trying to sell me the next hot lead generation portal or platform or whatever, and I would absolutely be happy to give advice and guidance. So yeah, so don't be afraid to reach out, because I think I know there's lots of us out there who would be happy to give advice and spend half an hour to an hour talking to people. Somebody Brilliant.

Speaker 1: 20:13

Sophia, apart from your dad what or who, have been the biggest influences on you so far, and you're launching great.

Speaker 2: 20:22

Wow. Okay, so I would say in general, the women in my life who, you know, I've got two sisters and obviously my mum as well, so we're a very female dominated household, which is why my dad is going great. But, yeah, I would say the women in my life, and that is kind of personal and professional, but there's a lot of kind of you know, persistence, determination that they've shown throughout different experiences, again, both personal and professional, but the ability that they've, we've always kind of got through it, whether that be as a family unit or as individuals. But I would definitely say the women in my life, and especially probably my mum.

Speaker 1: 21:13

And what are the family dynamics of working together? I've never worked with my family. I could think of nothing worse.

Speaker 2: 21:21

I knew this question was covered.

Speaker 1: 21:24

Yeah, so what are the family dynamics? Tell us about that.

Speaker 2: 21:28

They are interesting. The work never stops. It is 24, seven. You know there's no such thing as 95 anymore. Sorry, Dolly Parton, there's definitely a comedy element there constantly because we are both quite big personalities. But yeah, and it's obviously just because the work never stops. You constantly learning, you constantly talking, but it's not necessarily feeling like work, if that makes sense. But with that as well, and especially with this job, like you're not changing desk, it's a lot of travel and meetings, so you're getting out face to face a lot, which is just incredible.

Speaker 1: 22:09

Amazing. Sorry, so you touched on it there, sophia. It's a very demanding nature of work on that centre. Some of the videos. So how do you both maintain a healthy work life balance and any tips for staying motivated and engaged in the role?

Speaker 2: 22:29

I think for us, one you know thing that we do predominantly is we'll exercise together. We know we've got a day of calls from 10 till two and then three till you know half five, six. In that hour long gap we will make sure that we get a workout in a to refresh us. Be for an hour we'll talk about things other than work, so it kind of resets us and it just gives us that boost to energy, boost really to get through that afternoon. I think that's really beneficial and then, in terms of me, go on.

Speaker 1: 23:07

And Sadiq, you would have managed, like me, a lot of people down the years. You had to have adapted your management style to managing your own daughter. Talk us through that.

Speaker 3: 23:18

Yeah, it's really interesting because we'll spend sometimes hours looking at presentations, looking at spreadsheets, and I'm teaching her this is what this is what this does. And then there's other times when I have to be quite stern, you know, because you know the reality is. The reality is, you know she will work, she works very, very hard in what she does, but then at the same time, because I'm a father, she will also push the boundaries. Yeah, that's just a fact of life and as a manager, you have to know when to allow your employees to push the boundaries and when to sort of say no, you're pushing it too far.

Speaker 3: 24:03

And I sort of apply a similar sort of concept, although you know she she probably gets away with more than she should. But that's just because she's my daughter. I love her to bits and she's learning loads and she's helping and supporting you know, supporting me. So, yeah, so sometimes we have some really good days where we're laughing and joking. Other times we are just deadly focused on what we need to achieve and whether it's a proposal we need to get out, or whether it's a you know spreadsheet we need to get out for somebody, or we're listening to presentations from from BPO's with, you know, it's great fun, but it's also and it's great and it's greatly rewarding as well at the same time.

Speaker 1: 24:48

Yeah right, I'll come to you both. I'll come to you both now. What do you think the future holds for Contact Center, BPL outsourcing industry? How do you envision that involving over an Excel? Two, three, four years? What's your? But I'm really just get the tape from both ends of the spectrum on that one, Sophia. What's that with you?

Speaker 2: 25:11

I think the reality is, and the way that the world is moving is definitely more. There's going to be a lot more tech involved and whether that be we see different tech solutions in the trainings for the agents or on the actual floor day today, and I think that's something that BPO's are going to really have no choice but to eventually get on board with, because that is the way that the world is moving. So I think to embrace that change and welcome it is something that would be really beneficial to them and in terms of outsourcing in general, even in the short time that I've been working in this industry, the conversations that I'm having, it seems to, I mean, just be increasing in popularity constantly. Every single conversation that I have. The interest is definitely kind of increasing and it is something that I think is becoming more and more kind of popular.

Speaker 1: 26:09

Right and Sateek, I'll come to you with a starting different start on that section. On that question, the industry can't forever rely on people in their 50s like it has done over the last 20 years. So what needs to change and how do we, as the people in that bracket, shape that change?

Speaker 3: 26:29

I think we need to develop, have some development programs within BPO's, within contact centers, you know, and how do we rapidly develop these individuals and highlight these individuals and pull them up very, very quickly? I think there's been too much of jobs for the boys. I think I'll be honest with you, I look at all the BPO's all across the world there's too many jobs for the boys and not enough women being pulled through, not enough young people being pulled through and developed, and I think that's what needs to happen more and more, because the reality is we could get to a situation where we're too old to work and the people who need to take over the business haven't had the exposure and the experience to take over those businesses.

Speaker 1: 27:21

Yeah, I would agree with that. And finally, sophia, as you will know, on CX Diaries we normally ask our guests to go back to being 25 again and give some advice to the younger self. You're already there. So if we did this podcast again in 10 years, what would you be saying to us? Where would you think you'd be at and what would you have hoped for?

Speaker 2: 27:44

Well, I'd hoped that I'd learned a lot more and be putting it into practice. I would hope that, you know, the way that I am integrating myself into our partners would be a lot more involved in terms of innovation and ways that they can innovate. I hope that some of the things that we've spoken about today in this technologies and things would be kind of implemented in those core centres as well. So, yeah, I would hope that, yeah, for that in general, really, that I would be a lot more integrated with our partners as well as our clients, and kind of growing that as well as you know, solely managing a lot more of my own clients.

Speaker 1: 28:27

Fabulous. Thank you so much. It's been absolutely fascinating having you both with us today. This is the first time we've done a family podcast. I hope our listeners have found this as insightful as I have. You can find out a lot more about the Customer Experience Foundation at cxfoorg and we hope you can join us next time on the next one that's next time on CX Diaries.