Ever wonder what it takes to transition from an in-house Contact Centre to the exhilarating world of BPOs?
Meet Jo Garland, a seasoned industry maestro with a wealth of 20 years in the customer experience realm, and get a glimpse into her thrilling journey from in-house Contact Centres to Concentrix+Webhelp in the BPO sector. Unlock the key differences, unique challenges, and the strategic long-term approach that characterises the BPO industry. Jo's fresh insights are a treasure trove for anyone curious about the BPO sector or considering a tactical career move.
In this riveting chat, we pull back the curtain on Jo's achievements - from attaining a Masters degree during a global pandemic while juggling home-schooling duties, to spearheading ground breaking research on remote contact centre employee engagement.
Get sage advice from a veteran who has seen it all and continues to forge forward with a remarkable zeal for the future of the BPO industry. If you're at the cusp of your career, Jo's guidance on taking chances and nurturing authentic relationships could be the game changer you need.
Tune in for this enlightening episode and accompany us as we explore Jo's unique pathway, remarkable accomplishments, and visions for the future.
Ever wonder what it takes to transition from an in-house Contact Centre to the exhilarating world of BPOs?
Meet Jo Garland, a seasoned industry maestro with a wealth of 20 years in the customer experience realm, and get a glimpse into her thrilling journey from in-house Contact Centres to Concentrix+Webhelp in the BPO sector. Unlock the key differences, unique challenges, and the strategic long-term approach that characterises the BPO industry. Jo's fresh insights are a treasure trove for anyone curious about the BPO sector or considering a tactical career move.
In this riveting chat, we pull back the curtain on Jo's achievements - from attaining a Masters degree during a global pandemic while juggling home-schooling duties, to spearheading ground breaking research on remote contact centre employee engagement.
Get sage advice from a veteran who has seen it all and continues to forge forward with a remarkable zeal for the future of the BPO industry. If you're at the cusp of your career, Jo's guidance on taking chances and nurturing authentic relationships could be the game changer you need.
Tune in for this enlightening episode and accompany us as we explore Jo's unique pathway, remarkable accomplishments, and visions for the future.
Welcome to CX Diaries. Cx Diaries from the Customer Experience Foundation is our podcast where we talk to the people at the sharp end of CX Contact Centres the movers and the shakers, the innovators, the disruptors and the people delivering in the real world who share their personal stories of their journey through our industry. This week, I'm delighted to be joined by Joe Garland. Joe has spent over 20 years within the customer experience industry and over 10 years within Contact Centres. She has worked for three big retail brands Waypros, john Lewis and Asda and held a variety of senior leadership roles. She has very recently moved to Concentrics Plus WebHELP as a senior account director, where she has keen to experience the BPO side of the industry, which she loves so much. Joe also completed a Masters at Henry Business School and a dissertation on employee engagement, remote working Contact Centres, and is passionate about attracting talent to the industry by sharing career options. Joe, welcome, it's a pleasure to have you with us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Keith. Thank you for having me on. It's great to be here.
Speaker 1:Super. So you're a month into your new role. Tell us all about it and how it came about.
Speaker 2:Wow, yes, a month into a new role. What an exciting time to be part of the Joining as the WebHELP family and now part of a much bigger family as Concentrics and WebHELP have combined in the last two weeks. So it's been great. Had a great induction into the organisation, being very aware that I'm very experienced within Contact Centres but it's a completely different role. So really people have been great, been reaching out and really trying to set me up for success. But there's a lot of change, which is fantastic and I think it's a very exciting time to be part of the business that is now 440,000 changeers strong, which is fantastic. We're worldwide now and the role came about through some great connections I've had previously working with WebHELP in my previous organisation and just maintaining those connections and seeing a great opportunity in a great business, so it just felt like the right move at the right time.
Speaker 1:Okay, Amazing. So what were the most significant differences you noticed immediately upon joining the BPO sector?
Speaker 2:I think the role is very different. So the angle that you're looking at the customer experience is different. You're very much obviously representing the client, but from a BPO sector side, we are solely focused on Contact Centres. So within the organisations that I've worked in before, contact Centres has been part of a very big retail organisation, so it's just like an element of that big organisation. But within the BTO sector there's real expertise in all aspects of Contact Centre operations Contact Centre planning, quality and you meet people that have lived and breathed Contact Centres for a very long time and many of them have lived and worked abroad setting up Contact Centre operations for clients. So I think that's the difference. It's the depth of experience and also absolutely extremely commercial. So, as you would expect, that's really so important to get in the best value for the clients and ensure in the business that the BPO you work for continues to prosper.
Speaker 1:What would you say are the day-to-day differences in a BPO operation compared to that of an in-house?
Speaker 2:Contact Centre. Well, I mean, if I start with the I know it's not the question you ask, but the similarities are all about serving the customer, having that customer experience. But within the BPO side you are absolutely facing into the client, representing that client. So you've got two customers, You've got the client as a customer and then you've got the front-end customer and that's quite an interesting, a very interesting dynamic, which is great, and I think what WebHelp and Concentrics and WebHelp do is really build those strong relationships with clients. So it's very much a partnership and I've seen that more so than you would do, perhaps within within the non-BPO side, within the client side, where you're just interfacing with the front-end customers within an organization that perhaps doesn't fully understand how a contact center operates across the board.
Speaker 1:Yeah, interesting. So how would you describe the cultural shift and then how setting to a BPO?
Speaker 2:Wow, I mean that's a huge question because it's obviously it's organizational dependent. But I think there is a real team spirit within the BPO industry. From what I've experienced, everybody pulls together and a real desire to make things continually better for the client. So what I've experienced is team spirit, but also a lot of reflection, thinking how we can do things better for the client for next time and also having that view of a long-term relationship to ensure that essentially, you secure that client relationship and that client business for a long time and it is a long-term relationship. But to do that you've absolutely got to have that long-term view. So it's not just about transactional, serving customers daily to day. It's also about thinking how you can take strategically, take that account and the client and help them support their strategy achievement with their organization.
Speaker 1:Really interesting. What's the dynamic like amongst colleagues and teams in the BPO compared to the Inhouse Centre?
Speaker 2:I wouldn't say it's massively different. I think the people respond to the challenges as a team really well, and you did get that within an Inhouse Contact Centre team. I think the thing that binds it all together that is quite similar is it's super important to ensure that we're serving the customer to the best of our ability, whether that's the customer of the client or whether that's the customer of the Inhouse team. For me that is very similar. So there are nuances and differences, but I think both organizations that I've worked at have absolutely had the customer at the heart of decision-making and that you can see that running through the day-to-day operations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how's your own role and responsibilities changed? Are you doing a very different role now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. Previously I was director of the Contact Centre function, managing hundreds of employees, moving into a senior account director role where I have a portfolio of accounts that I'm responsible for and quite a small team to account directors reporting into me who have their own accounts. So it's very different, a different kind of role, but it's really pulling all the skills I've got for strategic planning and really upskilling myself in different industries. Where I've come from retail, some of my accounts are within different industries, so really trying to immerse myself within those industries so I really understand what's the external context, where is that industry going in the future? What are the challenges? So I can really begin to understand how I can really add value to all of our clients from a longer term strategic perspective really interesting, and what sort of challenges have you faced during your own transition over the last month?
Speaker 1:so how have you overcome them?
Speaker 2:So I think the biggest challenge, keith, has been around not knowing what I don't know. So you know you're unconsciously well, I think I'm consciously incompetent. Where you just really there's things about the role that I don't fully understand at the moment. And you know I'm getting up to speed quickly and I've got a really supportive team who you know helped to upskill me and show me that how things are done within that organization.
Speaker 2:I think the you know the nuance around every single client requires quite a different you know a different handling of them, or you know a different relationship. Some want a very proactive relationship, others there's not so much. So it's really, it's really interesting. So there's a lot of differences within how you, how you can be an account director first of all, and and so you know just learning. What I'm trying to do is learn from as many different people as possible, alongside learning from how the organization works. So how do you get things done within an organization and so meeting key people from key functions in change in finance. So I can fully understand the you know, fully understand the role, but understand and understand how you get things done within that organization, which is obviously going through quite a lot of change at the moment as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah and on that have you?
Speaker 1:have you found any experiences yet where your previous in-house experience is going to significantly benefit your current role?
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely so. You know understanding, understanding how you know contact center operation works, understanding you know quality score cards, understanding you know just the where the industry is going in the future holds you in really good stead, not only, not only for those internal conversations and you know you can be, you know, really brought up to speed quickly because you understand how an operation works but also with that external credibility that you've. You've run a big contact center operation so you know what good looks like and I think that's that's super important when you're, you know, sitting in front of clients, advising them on, you know, their account and where you think it should go in the future. You absolutely need to have that credibility of understanding you know what good looks like, albeit it may be within a different, a different industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and thinking more broadly, what opportunities do you think are available in BPO's that might not be present in in-house contact centers?
Speaker 2:Oh, I mean, I think it's. For me, the BPO sector provides huge opportunities in terms of for people's careers and you know I'm super passionate about this. But you know you wouldn't, you wouldn't, in many roles, in many jobs, get the opportunity to travel the world and work in different countries for an extended period of time and so that and experience different cultures. I mean that is that is huge for people's life experiences as well as their career trajectory. And but also I think there's there's a huge element in the BPO where you really you know, really develop. You know really strong financial acumen, commerciality, you know contract negotiation and you know all of those things that you don't really experience within an in-house contact center team. And it's tough, it's fast paced, you know it's challenging, but it's really a fantastic environment to develop some really key skills that I think could hold you in. You know fantastic, you know fantastic goods. You're good stead for. You know any kind of career in the future.
Speaker 1:And what are those specific skills or talents that are more valuable in the BPO setting?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for me it's around. You know absolutely fantastic relationship management, so you need to be able to connect with people, with your client. You need to be emotionally intelligent to understand. You know what's not being said as well as what's being said and be able to kind of pick up on those clues. You need to be able to understand what's happening in that specific industry so you can understand that and add value. You develop, as I said, you know financial skills and then you know a really good run is that negotiation to ensure that you get the best for the client. But also you know ensure that the financial viability of a contract is still good for the BPO.
Speaker 1:Really interesting, and how is your approach to leadership and management evolving since going into BPO? Having run quite large operations before and now with a small team, how's your approach to leadership and management changing?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's.
Speaker 2:That's a really good question and, you know, taking a different path from managing big operational teams to, as I said, to managing a small team is very different.
Speaker 2:So for me, it's around continuing to really hone my stakeholder management skills, because I haven't got, you know, accountability for the things that I used to have accountability for and these things, you know, these are all things that are well developed, but, you know, continuing to learn and challenge myself about how you, how you achieve things within an organisation where you haven't got a very strong network, because you've only been in for four weeks.
Speaker 2:So I think I've absolutely over indexing on building, trying to build relationships, understanding how things work, and also I think it's super important to really take the time to listen and understand rather than assume. You want you know the context, because the context, the history, you know how things work in a in a different industry, has to be understood before you can make decisions. So you know, I'm a bit of an activator. I like to achieve things, I like to get things done, I like to see how I'm adding value and what I'm having to do is really reflect on where I can add value, because I've got some amazingly talented people around me, but also not jumping in too soon, because I need to really understand, really understand the context and the and the differences with having that the client interface as well.
Speaker 1:Really interesting. Is there anything you miss about working in an in-house course?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I do, I miss the, I do, I do miss leading big teams, I must say. But you know, I think, from an in-house contact centre in a big organisation, you're only, you're only a small part of that organisation. You may be a significant part, but it won't be. It won't be, it won't be a huge part of that organisation. So in my experience, so for me, the things that I miss are completely outweighed by the fact that you know I'm surrounded in the industry I love. Everything is is to do with contact centres, making things better for clients and and there's a real, absolute belief in the insight that we can offer from the contact centres can benefit, can benefit clients, and sometimes it's it's quite hard to convince. You know, in big retail organisations that can be quite a challenge to convince. You know, stakeholders in the business that the contact centre is more than a cost centre. You know it can add that value. So for me, moving into the BPO sector where everybody understands the value of what the contact centre can tell you, is a real win.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Is there anything you wish you knew about BPO World before making this transition that you didn't know before?
Speaker 2:I don't think there is really. I think I really tried hard over the last few years to build my network within the BPO industry and know quite a few people within that industry. So I've really tried to kind of understand it, because it was a big thing making that decision to move my career in that direction. So I don't think there's anything that I wish I'd have known. I mean, I love learning things, I enjoy understanding things about different sectors, so it's just been a win-win for me. If I'm honest.
Speaker 1:Great. What would your advice be? What advice would you give to someone also considering making that similar transition from in-house to outsource?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the main advice would be is to really build, first of all, to build your network in that BPO space, really understand what's happening in the industry, understand the context of all the different countries that provide those BPO services. You've got some great resources that are available that give you white papers and research that different organisations have done, such as the CXFO. There's lots of research that could be tapped into. So it's about really understanding what it means to work in a BPO, understanding external context, and then you know, and really it is challenging. You know it's fast paced, it's challenging and that, and really understanding.
Speaker 2:If you like that kind of environment, then that's great. If you don't, then you need to think about it. And, talking to people who've made the transition, you know absolutely understanding how that is for them and what lessons they've learned along the way, which is exactly what I did, you know, when I joined. I've got a colleague who had had a similar career trajectory to me and joined from a client business and is doing the same role as me. We spent quite a long time talking about what lessons have you learned, particularly in the first few weeks. There's so much to learn. What would you suggest I do in the first few weeks and that was super useful and I suggest that anybody considering that absolutely connects with people like that and really gets the reality of what it's like to work in a BPO.
Speaker 1:Yeah, amazing advice. Where do you see the BPO industry heading in the next two to three years, especially with the rise of automation and AI?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think it's just going to, it's just going to explode even more than it is already. I think, you know, absolutely, with automation and AI, there will continue to be, you know, monotonous tasks taken out, and I think historically, the kind of repetitive tasks were things that were usually outsourced to the BPO world from clients. However, you know, I think, as what we will see is even more specialist roles into the BPO world as well, because, yes, there's a lot of tasks will be removed, but I think customer expectations are developing all the time and the need for empathy and the need for, you know, the need for employees to be resilient is huge. So I think, actually, the roles that the BPO provides, the frontline roles, will be even more attractive. And I think, you know, when you look at, you know, south Africa, for example, they're doing a fantastic job of addressing some of the you know unemployment through some, you know, impact sourcing, and I think that will continue to grow.
Speaker 2:We will see that that will become more of a free requisite for businesses. So I can see the BPO world moving into a space where, you know, impact sourcing is not it is actually not a is not a choice anymore. So, which is fantastic, and you have lots of organizations already in this space. But that will continue to continue to advance, jobs will continue to evolve and I believe they will become more specialist and I think we will be in a situation where the BPO is moving to a, not just a sim, not just providing those customer service agents for clients, but also providing the technology and the and the support and partnership in designing. You know what is your channel strategy, what's your strategic direction. So it'd be much more consultative approach as we move forward.
Speaker 1:I think yeah, fascinating insight. Thinking more broadly about your wider career in some of the big organisations you've worked at, what was? Your biggest achievement? What are you most proud of through your career?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. So probably I've got a bit, probably two things. Firstly, completing a Masters yeah at Henley Business School a couple of years ago. I think the achievement was not only achieving that academic qualification but achieving it through COVID when I'm trying to homeschool two children. That was quite an achievement. But also my dissertation that I wrote was a research project into employee engagement in remote contact centres and I really wanted to explore in some detail something that would benefit the industry and it's been hugely, it's been well received, but I feel that I'm a bit of an expert in that space now and so that's a huge achievement and getting that across the line was fantastic.
Speaker 2:And then earlier on in my career I was an internal coach with the John Lewis partnerships. They provided coaching for all partners across the organisation. It's a fantastic free service. And as part of that role that I did alongside my day job, myself and a colleague developed a pilot for group coaching. So we developed this pilot that enabled groups of people within the organisation to have coaching in a team of I don't know 8 to 10 people, and what we found was by testing that with different groups of people.
Speaker 2:So, for example, people who worked on a night shift, people who had children with a special need. We brought those groups of people together from all across the organisation, so from 80,000 people, and those groups were able to provide. We were there as a coach, as a facilitator, but those groups were able to provide support, ongoing support for each other, taking away the pressure from some of the leadership because they didn't have time to provide that partial support for everybody. And the concept of group coaching was actually rolled out across the John Lewis partnership. So that was a hugely proud moment because I was really aware that the coaching proposition albeit a fantastic proposition with only 100 coaches for that many people, wasn't going to be an awful lot of time. So by setting up something to do with groups where more people could be coached and provide that support for each other, that was great and a huge step forward in the proposition at the time.
Speaker 1:Incredible. And picking up a bit further. As you know, we always like to ask our guests to reflect and help those coming up through the industry so you can go back to being 25 again. What advice would you give to your young person?
Speaker 2:I think the I probably I don't know two things spring to mind. I think the first thing is you know, have a go. You know, there's, there's. There's been points in my career where, where I've been, a door is open for an opportunity and I've. You know, sometimes I've gone through it and sometimes I haven't. But the times that I've gone through it and taken a chance even though I thought this is might be a little bit of a stretch, I'm not sure I can do all of what's been asked of me has always been a success. So it's like real jumping out of your comfort zone and just believing in yourself that actually taking a chance can just be fantastic because it can take your career in a different, in a different direction.
Speaker 2:You know, I remember I was working in in Waitrose. I'd only been in a role nine months. I was a program manager for convenience and I saw a role for in John Lewis in the contact centre function and I just thought I'm not sure I can do that. I'm not really got a lot of experience in that, but I do love contact centres, having had a bit of a previous experience. So I applied and I got the job and it was tough. I went on a learning curve but that has, that has developed my career. So I wouldn't have had my career that I've had if I hadn't have taken that chance. So that's my first one.
Speaker 2:And then the second one is just about your network. Building genuine relationships with people in internal networking, the organisation you work in and externally is so important. You know, something I do every week is I really try and connect with somebody in the external industry just to have a quick chat and, you know, if time allows, have a quick coffee. But it's just about being inspired by people that work within the industry to develop your thinking and, you know, really just inspire you to lead differently, to think differently, and you never know where your network can support you or you can support your network. So for me it's about having those genuine, genuine relationships across your network. So those are my two things that I would definitely advise people to do.
Speaker 1:I would completely support that. And how do you unwind and escape from it all?
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. And so I've got two children that keep me quite busy, two teenage girls, which is probably not and enables me to unwind or escape at all. But you know, I've got a black Labrador who I take for walks every morning very early and then I just try to really try and really switch off. So I've learned over the years that actually being online all the time, all weekend, doesn't really do do anybody any favors, really, because you're not, you're not productive if you're, if you're online too much. So really try and draw that line, get outside and walk the dog and and and just try and keep, keep fit. I mean, it's a bit haphazard, I must admit, but you know you have good intentions and you get some fresh air. So for me that's, that's how I unwind.
Speaker 1:Joe, it's been fabulous having you with us today. Thank you so much for joining us. I hope I listened, as I found this insightful to. You can find out lots more about the customer experience foundation at Cxfoorg and we hope you can join us next time on Cx Diaries.