Imagine leading a thriving business where employee satisfaction links directly to customer happiness. Our guest, Iain Banks, CEO of Ventrica, shares his unique vision and leadership journey, showing us how to create a positive work environment that benefits all. He divulges Ventrica's approach to the digital customer experience and the importance of investing in a robust team.
Ever pondered about the critical elements of offshoring? It's all about the triad of people, process, and technology in the BPO industry, and we uncover these with Iain. We delve into the sectors ripe for BPO providers and the rising importance of data security and corporate social responsibility. Iain further enlightens us on Ventrica's stance on those fronts and the potential risks of outsourcing.
We end our chat with a look at Ventrica's ESG and CSR goals and how they strive to engage employees and local charities. We also explore the importance of maintaining a consistent culture across global destinations, the evolving role of humans in the age of automation and AI, and the impact of Ventrica's accomplishments on the industry.
This episode is a treasure trove of insights into the world of offshoring, automation, and AI in the customer experience industry.
Imagine leading a thriving business where employee satisfaction links directly to customer happiness. Our guest, Iain Banks, CEO of Ventrica, shares his unique vision and leadership journey, showing us how to create a positive work environment that benefits all. He divulges Ventrica's approach to the digital customer experience and the importance of investing in a robust team.
Ever pondered about the critical elements of offshoring? It's all about the triad of people, process, and technology in the BPO industry, and we uncover these with Iain. We delve into the sectors ripe for BPO providers and the rising importance of data security and corporate social responsibility. Iain further enlightens us on Ventrica's stance on those fronts and the potential risks of outsourcing.
We end our chat with a look at Ventrica's ESG and CSR goals and how they strive to engage employees and local charities. We also explore the importance of maintaining a consistent culture across global destinations, the evolving role of humans in the age of automation and AI, and the impact of Ventrica's accomplishments on the industry.
This episode is a treasure trove of insights into the world of offshoring, automation, and AI in the customer experience industry.
Hello and welcome to CX Diaries for Customer Experience Foundation, our weekly podcast where we talk to the people at the sharp end of CX and Contact Centres. This week I'm delighted to be joined by Ian Banks, who is CEO of Ventureca in good afternoon. Pleasure to have you with us today.
Speaker 2:Good afternoon, Keith. Absolutely delighted to be here again.
Speaker 1:So last time we spoke, you had only been in post as CEO of Ventureca for two months, maybe three months. So tell us what's been happening in the last year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. When we last spoke, I literally just joined Ventureca and it's been a hugely I'd say entertaining 12, 14 months. I don't know if my team would vouch for that, but it's been a hugely entertaining but also, I think, challenging, given the current economic climate that we face ourselves. I'm delighted with the momentum that we've made, both from a client point of view but really more importantly, from an employee's point of view. We've done a huge amount of work to try to be seen as that employer of choice.
Speaker 2:I go on the old adage that if you have a happy employee, you're going to have a happy customer. I mean, it's not, it isn't rocket science, whether it's a voice or non-voice contact. So yeah, it's been a very, very interesting, very rewarding 12 months and also for myself, it's been hugely educational. Before I took this role, I looked at CEOs and sometimes questioned certain decisions and gone what is someone thinking to making that? But actually, when you're in that seat, it's far easier when you're not in the seat than when you are in the seat. I can vouch for that.
Speaker 1:So let's unpack some of that a little bit. So how have you been shaping the strategy of Ventrica over the last 12 months?
Speaker 2:So I took the role of Ventrica because I wanted to make a difference in our industry, not influence a decision. I wanted to make a difference in what we were trying to do from a customer perspective, an employee perspective as well. And it's very much about trying to be different because, if you think about the last 12 months, the markets went through a massive consolidation, whether that's at the enterprise organizations or at the mid-market organizations, there's been a huge consolidation which has brought uncertainty into the marketplace as well. Couple that with the worst economical position that we've been in the last 40 years. It's how do you navigate through those choppy waters? So for us, it's about being relevant, it's about being visible and it's about being different.
Speaker 2:So our strategy, first and foremost, was putting our employees at the heart of everything. Some things we've got tremendously well and other things we've got wrong. We're not perfect, but we're learning from those things and, as I said at the beginning, they're a happy employee for all intents and purpose to deliver as a happy end customer. So that's we've then been looking at how we can shape the market from a digitally enabled CX organization and not just in your what I would call your traditional CX BPO plays, which very much sits in a vertical organization, but how we can also work with organizations right across a suite of, I would say, propositions within their own organization, so not just traditional BPO but other things such as service desk, marketing facilities.
Speaker 2:So we really are trying to re-engineer the organization so that, coming out of these choppy waters, a client could come to Ventrica, not just for CX but for many, many other sort of verticals within that as well, which isn't easy. That's a significant transformation that we've been taking through the business. But the heart of all of this has been bringing on board the right people. We've invested a huge amount of time and money into putting the best possible team on the park and I'm delighted with who we've brought in. It's a bit of a football analogy. We've brought in some real superstars to compliment the fantastic team that we're already in place.
Speaker 1:When I took over, OK, how have you been driving the culture at Ventrica? So I know that's something that's certainly very important to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's huge and I go all the way back to 27 years ago. Now it's nearly the three decades only a couple of more years and I can actually say three decades in this industry, and the grey hair is definitely starting to come through. Apologies, my dog's just decided to bark there, but I take this back with me when I was an agent on the phones. And actually, when you think about culture, then, yes, the contact centre has evolved, but the same things are still in place. It's about providing people with a career path. It's providing people with leadership, with the right leadership principles. It's about providing employees with an organisation that they can look at and really turn around and say I am proud to work for that organisation.
Speaker 2:That's what we're aspiring to and I always say this when we've done a recent town hall, and I give the analogy because some people see this industry as a stop-yap, a little six-month gig, and I always say listen, if E-M-Banks, from humble beginnings, can rise up within this industry to be the CEO of one of the UK and Europe's leading or BP organisations, anyone can do it. I love to see that the philosophy we use is make ourselves redundant. So it's all about succession of planning and bench strength and giving people that opportunity to develop. And, as I said, there's some things that we've done tremendously well and we can be really proud of. There's other things that, looking back and do you know what? Yeah, that failed at that work, but we've learned from that and, as I said, we are very it is crucially important to be that employer of choice, that our employees feel that they take pride in the work they do for Ventrica.
Speaker 1:What's your view on the shape of the offshoring world?
Speaker 2:Yes, I mean my background. If you take the last 18, 19 years, the work that I've done in this industry has been very much at an international level. So I am a huge, huge supporter of offshoring, but in a balanced approach. So there is a time and place for offshoring. There is a client that is specifically designed for offshoring, compared to some other clients where actually offshoring won't really hit the mark. So I think what's important is understanding a client's problem statement before jumping straight into solution mode.
Speaker 2:There was a horrible phrase that used to be used for offshoring Labour arbitrage and I actually heard that four weeks ago someone used that phrase again of Labour arbitrage. And this industry goes through cycles and we're now back in the cycle and it is purely because of the economical pressures that are in the UK and in America and in Australia where organisations are really under some significant economic pressures to still drive value add but at a lower cost point. And I'm not going to say some people say it's the easy option because you get an immediate cost saving by going, but sometimes it's not the right option. And then again I go back to my roots in this industry, where this industry is built on three pillars people, process and technology and it's actually finding a blend of showing plays a part in those three pillars. But again, I think it's very much down to the particular client that is looking and also then at that point it's the right region because there are.
Speaker 2:I think that's a really important point. Offshoring isn't just. I mean, the key area at the moment is people keep talking about South Africa, but you then absolutely look at Africa as a region and that opens up a whole different proposition that isn't really discussed. There are probably one or two who you'll know well, keith, are doing tremendously well, which you are part of our ecosystem in that region. So, yeah, I'm a big supporter of it. But it plays a part in the three pillars and it plays a part in the three pillars that you've got to get the right balance between that people, the process and where you implement technology.
Speaker 1:What do you think, what are you seeing in terms of the industries or sectors that are biggest to the BPO providers, and what's your take on what will emerge or is emerging over the next 12, 18 months?
Speaker 2:I think you're going to say again, from where I sit and speaking to analysts when we start to look at the UK market. I think you're in the next 12, 18 months, as we come out of this uncertain period, I think you're going to see a lot of organisations I'd call them high value, transformational organisations Start to look at, let's say, it's that word outsourcing. But they're CX experience, they're end-to-end experience and really determining well, if they already outsource, are we with the right organisation that can give us the people, the process and the technology? Are we part of now a massive pond and we are a small fish? I also think you're going to see a significant shift of in-house organisations who? It's not their core competence contact centres. I was talking to an organisation last week who told me what their core competence was and they said we've got a 300 seat contact centre. We're not contact centre, we're not customer experience. We do this. Why do we have this huge contact centre? So I do think you're going to see a real shift in in-house organisations going. Can someone help us here and again, because normally in-house you have legacy systems that have been built up over years and that's quite hard to tear down and start again.
Speaker 2:I think, when you look at verticals, you've got the traditional verticals who outsource heavily, who have got high volumes. So you've got the banking, financial services, insurance. You've got the energy obviously, given the current energy market, they've got significant volumes going through Retail and in Venturekill we have a large percentage of our businesses retail. But, as we know, retail is one of those verticals that is probably most challenged due to these current economic situations. I think with the uplift in travel and hospitality, I think you're going to see that start to peak again, with more and more people travelling albeit what's just happened over the last 24 hours that may dent it again. And I also think automotive when you start to look at the rise of the electric vehicle, I think you're going to go in more and more and this isn't your traditional voice play. I think you're going to see automotive very much from a digital platform channel and how the end user experience is interfaced. That's going to become more and more prominent.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a sector that's right for CX, disruption and digitalisation. Data security and privacy is a big concern for many clients. How are you at Venturekill supporting that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is. Again, it is one of those ones, if you think about it and I always look at the world now, pre-COVID and post-COVID and post-COVID that has become more and more important, but not only because people are working from home, and it's not just working from home, it's working from anywhere in the world and organisations, especially from a GDPR perspective, are very sensitive about cross-border data sovereignty. So recently in Venturekill, we've just hired a new head of compliance in data security. He's joined us. I mean we are, when you look at it from a PCI point of view, from a cybersecurity plus point of view, and GDPR compliant. We are very strict in that. We're also in the process of looking at how we can continue to do penetration testing and ensuring that we are.
Speaker 2:We are delivering to our clients that level of security that they ask for when they choose to partner with you. Because, again, I think data security is one of those ones when the contract is done and dusted, it gets signed and gets put in a drawer and actually it's one of those areas that doesn't get tested at all. You don't pull that contract. I mean, yeah, you focus on service levels and you focus on strategic growth. No one ever pulls a contract out and say, right, talk with you your data centers or cloud based solutions. So it's something that we are taking very seriously. Because you've seen it in the press, Some of our peers and our competition in this industry have been hit by recent Cyber Security Act and it's hard to come back from that. So we take that extremely seriously, not just for our clients, but for our employees as well, to make sure we are driving the right outcomes from a data security compliance.
Speaker 2:I mean even to the point, without going into too much. It is probably number two or three in our board risk register that we discuss every single month.
Speaker 1:Incredible. In a recent poll that we ran at Foundation across our community, 71% of respondents said they didn't outsource due to either a lack of trust or fear of loss of control. What's your response to that?
Speaker 2:I think if you do that about 15 years, it would still be the same answer as well. The bit that gets me is the lack of control Because, again, my career started in in-house and I know a lot of people who work in house and it is a control, it's a safe environment I think that's the phrase that I use they have safety and that they know that if this doesn't work, we can do that. So they see it sometimes as a leap of faith. But for me, being in this industry and work for some enterprise organizations as well as mid-market, for me the proof's in the pudding about demonstrable experience. You want to pick a partner who has got a proven track record in delivering it, and I do think sometimes what the BPO world and CEX world has got, the stigma is that we've promised the world and in some occasions not delivered it, and that's why I always say that I'm engaging with either my existing partners or, if I'm talking to potential new partners, don't just hear what I've got to say. Come in, lift the board up and kick it around and you'll be able to say go talk to our clients, go talk to our clients. So I do think the leap of faith is finding the partner that can actually demonstrate that they've done it, they've proven it and they are a safe pair of hands which gives them faith.
Speaker 2:But also, you do over a phase period of time. You don't just go from in-house to outsourcing your full estate immediately. You do bit by bit and take it through a phased approach. So I do think the stigma of CEX and outsourcing is changing. I think we have a responsibility. You, keith, and your peers within the industry have a responsibility to make sure that organizations who are considering making that leap of faith understand what that looks like, rather than listening to the whispers that go around our industry. Yeah, we get things wrong. Every organization gets things wrong. But I can guarantee you we get more things right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we touched on that earlier about the consolidation in the sector. Is scale still important? In BPO there's been a lot of consolidation.
Speaker 2:This is a really interesting topic, keith, for me, so Ventracus in mid-market. As I said, I've worked for some of the larger enterprise organizations where scale is important and sometimes it can be seen that it's a race to who's got the largest revenue scale. I think as we come out of this level of uncertainty and economic position, I don't think scale will have the same degree of importance as it does just now. I think organisations who are either outsourcing just now or looking to outsource are going to look for organisations that are nimble, that are agile, that can react either at the same speed or faster than which they react to, and that there is no bureaucracy that doesn't get in the way. I think sometimes when you have scale and you build an infrastructure to such a scale, there has to be structure, process and governance that comes with that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I think organisations, you're going to see a shift. The organisations want a degree of structure but still want that entrepreneurship about them that says be agile, be flexible to our demands. That's what I'm saying. It's not just about the CX spectrum. If they can find an organisation that sits right across a number of factors in their business, that is what will make a true strategic partner. I don't think necessarily scale plays the driving factor in that.
Speaker 1:Talk to us about CSR and ESG at Benjaca. That's important to all clients these days and to most of our listeners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll start with the CSR Again. I'm hugely passionate about CSR. I do a huge amount of charitable events out with work. I'm a big believer in giving something back to society, as is Benjaca. As part of our strategy, we recently done an employee survey. We invested a lot of time into it. We actually went back to the employees and said rather than the boards or me make up what our KPIs are for ESG and CSR, you tell us what you want. You tell us what you want to achieve. We've now created what we call People's Champions. We have a group of a team that are the voice of our employee network throughout the UK and South Africa and in Europe. We've recently just created two engagement positions as well within the organisations who interface internally and externally as well with local charities. Last week I don't know if you saw it on LinkedIn, for example it was Pink Barbody, keith. You've currently got your picture on, but yeah, it was for venture until last week we're raising money for a local charitable breast cancer awareness charity. We take that hugely important to our employees.
Speaker 2:Esg is one of these acronyms that is evolving so much. I would say we are on the right trajectory to where we want to go? Do we have a lot of work to do in terms of that? Social responsibility, absolutely. From an environmental point of view, absolutely, I think, the governance that we've got you heard me talking about risk register before I think we've got a platform that we can build on and it is becoming more and more important.
Speaker 2:The first it's a bit like business continuity, keith. Again, if you turn the clock back five years, if you were responding to an RIP, business continuity and ESG was the very last two pages of the RIP. Now it's flipped. It's not just ESG, it's about your diversity, your inclusion, your quality strategy. The reason that's becoming important is from an employee value proposition point of view Employees, now, when they make a decision about who they're going to work for, and clients making that decision who they're going to work for, it's not about how much they pay. Yes, pay is important, but it's about talk to me about everything else that you do. I think, on ESG, we've got a great foundation, but we still have and I think everyone's in the same boat because it's evolving so much we've still got a lot of work to do to really crack the code on what that looks like.
Speaker 1:Yes, and touching on that a little bit more, ventureca has expanded into global destinations. How do you, and how does an organisation like VentureCa, ensure that the VentureCa culture lives across those separate entities?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's something that we thought very carefully about and we created what we call our shared services organisation and, again, we've invested significantly into that organisation and they are there really to ensure that our culture, our operating standards, our leadership development standards are consistent. So it's like the VentureCa operating model right across all our entities is consistent. Yes, you have to take into consideration cultural nuances when you're in Europe, when you're in Africa, but 80% of what people see across the globe for VentureCa is built out of that shared service environment that we've created, Something that we're hugely passionate about. It's been massively rewarding for our employees, but also from our clients point of view as well, how we can shift very flexibly from the UK to South Africa to one of our EU hubs and keep that consistent brand awareness throughout it. So, yeah, we've set up a dedicated function now to ensure consistency right across the piece. It's headed up by Colin Baker, who was a phenomenal hire from us, and he's doing a fantastic job at creating that.
Speaker 1:Thinking more now about people. We know that's important to everyone, particularly to you. With the development of automation and AI, how do you see the human role evolving?
Speaker 2:I think the human world is going to become more and more important. I mean, yes, and again I was having this and this could be a bit controversial what I'm about to say, keith, but you've normally long enough that I don't mind creating controversy. But again I go back to the three principles. When I was an agent I got taught those three principles People process technology. So 27 years ago technology was still a place. 20 years ago, bots were still in place. Okay, yes, technology is going to have a far more prominent role in our industry.
Speaker 2:I do think there's still a bit of hype when we talk about chat, gbt, ai, where that's going to land. I think it's going to soften at some point and again, this is the cycle that we go through. But I do think technology is going to play an important role. But I have a short amount of insight when I work for Genesis that it's not just about buying the nice, shiny piece of technology and the mantle piece and throwing it against and thrown into your organization and hoping something steps. The key is actually understanding the customer journey, the pain point, the employee journey pain point, and finding a platform or a technology that balances that workload between people, process and technology.
Speaker 2:So I think someone said that the role of the frontline agent is dead. We eventually don't believe that is the role the frontline role going to evolve, going to become far more mature, going to become far more sophisticated than dealing with more higher, complex inquiries. Absolutely, but that was the case If you think about it. What about 19 years ago? The big buzz phrase was big data, right, and how that was going to change the industry. I don't think it necessarily changed it. I think technology will change it, but I think it will change it for the better. I think our frontline ambassadors will be left with higher value customers that need more dedication, need more expertise, need a more emotional reaction compared to the technology that will there to be drive self-serving those I mean this with the greatest respect the lower value transactions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what qualities in 2023 and beyond? Does someone need to succeed in the VPS sector?
Speaker 2:Thick skinned.
Speaker 1:It's always been the case.
Speaker 2:I think, generally, the resilience is a really important, it's an important trait to have because it's I mean, it's everyone. This is a very tough market that we find ourselves in that everyone is trying to navigate through at the moment and nobody has a crystal ball. Everyone's predicting what it's going to look like at the end, but nobody has a crystal ball. So I do think resiliency is one of them. I think entrepreneurship is definitely one. I have no problems us failing. I would rather we fail trying than fail sitting on our backside. So not losing that entrepreneurship is going to be really, really important.
Speaker 2:The other one that I'm a huge believer of is hunger, because it's the phrase you can take the horse to water, and this isn't just from a client point of view, it's from an employee point of view as well, because I'm a big believer in leadership and development. But I'm also a huge believer in your own self-defelement, having the hunger to develop yourself and create your own luck. Again, I'm not one of these people that says you've luck's just landed on you. You make your own luck in this industry, and it's hard work, it's determination and it's a bit of that self-awareness to say I want to learn myself and I'm going to learn and educate myself as well, yeah, and finally, where are the future leaders coming from?
Speaker 1:in our industry, we've picked up a lot of people wanting to work with the big brands and less people around the 30-year-old age group coming into BPO and leadership positions. What's your take on that and what advice would you have for aspiring leaders?
Speaker 2:I'll start with the second question, and this was a piece of advice that my own leader, who's no longer with us, john Kellett, gave me. He said surround yourself with people that make you a better person. And I took that intervention and if you look at the team that I've put together, they make me, and we make each other, a better person and a better team. So that is hugely important as leaders to surround yourself with people that will challenge you, people that will not just take your word and go yes or no, sir, three bags full. People that will challenge the norm, and so I think that's huge. That would be, that would be my advice. Surround yourself with a solid team. Where are the leaders coming from? Again, I'm going to put myself into venture issues. I would love nothing more to be sitting here. If I hopefully am sitting here, actually, if I'm sitting here in 20 years time still in the BUP world and not retired on a golf course, then I've not done something right. But I would love for in 15, 20 years time, an employee of Ventrica who started as an agent on the phone is to be sitting in the CEO chair. I actually believe I talked about succession planning. I think that's huge, ben. Strength is huge. We have a responsibility to create the leaders of the future.
Speaker 2:I look at some of our aspiring leaders in Ventrica and also by the way out with Ventrica from a networking point of view. I think there's some unbelievable talent out there. I think part of that is timing getting the right opportunity at the right time but part of it is also having the right manager in place. I've been blessed by having three or four truly phenomenal managers that gave me my break in this industry, and I think that's where I have an obligation to make sure my team have the right leadership development qualities in place to bring on the new leaders. In 15, 20 years time. When you and I, keith, are on a golf course somewhere having a few beers, we can look back and say we created that, and that, for me, is if that was to happen. I generally, from a professional point of view, I couldn't be proud of. If someone in 15, 20 years was an agent just now or some role in Ventrica sitting as a CEO, that would make me unbelievably proud.
Speaker 1:Amazing, Ian. That's a super place to finish. It's been absolutely wonderful having you with us today. I hope our listeners have found this as great as I have. You can find out lots more about the Customer Experience Foundation at cxfoorg and we hope you can join us next time on CXVaries. Thank you, Keith.